Anti-pax tactic

I recently developed a new tactic to counter oponents that are moving heavy passenger trafic. Pax pays on both sides of the lines, and a player with trains between two big towns has good chances to grow up faster. Against that I tried to make bus lines in the player's towns to other small towns around. The purpose is to reduce the oponent's trafic while increasing mine.
Note: the buses I use make money and move a lot of passengers, i don't do intown trafic with short lines loosing money: I move a lot of pax and increase my cargo and vehicules while reducing the other's trafic.

Some players say it is sabotage, not regular play. One was so pissed off that he used exploits to block me and ruined my game.

Do you think this tactic is unfair? Is it going against any rule?

[quote]Do you think this tactic is unfair? Is it going against any rule? [/quote]

On the one hand: its a competition server and that behaviour (competing for same ressource) is a good thing...
But on the other hand: You can "destroy" anothers starting line with such tactics when you are in the game for quite a time and can afford it. You wont do such a tactics as a starter, because the pax train will get more revenue than your near distance buses.

So its the same for all ressources: A financial strong player can "ruin" a starters game when he decides to compete the starting ressource...

consequently I have to say: This behaviour is not against any rule (right now). Is it unfair? yes, in a way competition is unfair... imho its OK, but I wouldnt do such thing, if the is a good alternative to transport "own" cargo and win with it, rather than "stealing" from another player. But there are times when transporting the same resource is just to most profitable thing to do... So I see it from a my-company-focused view, not from the how-can-I damage-other-companies-most view.
Think for yourself. People will "hate" your style, but they could adapt to you and get aggressive too the next games...there is always a second chance.

Does this help you?

JStaxton

I don't think it is against any rules, but I don't think it is friendly competition, and here is why...

You can't win by doing it. You will only slow the other persons victory or allow a third player to win (just like what happened when you had you fight). Spending you time vampiring to stop someone else is not going to help you meet the "goal" fastest.

Thanx for your responses; it is good to have your opinions. To make things more clear I have to detail the circonstances where I used this tactic.

# First game: iirc it was a high speed map. We where in the middle of the game, at about 200 cp points. I made a good start with very profitable oil business, and just reached a high income level transporting long distance goods. In front Chuck was runing long distance passenger lines between two big towns. My problem was that his cargo points were growing very fast. I had better income but he was going to blow me out with his constantly increasing volume of cargo.
In this situation I had to grow up my cargo points, or I would loose for sure. The fastest way to achieve this is pax and mail trafic. Chuck had the two main cities, the biggests. I could use other towns smaller but it would not grow my trafic fast enough comparing to my competitor. So I decided to use "his" cities for two reasons: grow fast my trafic while lowering his. Due to my high income I was able to put a lot of buses in service in these towns to other smaller ones at middle distance. And this had the effect I was waiting for: my trafic grew up fast and chuck's stoped growing, so that leaded me to victory.
This strategy was created as a tactical reaction to some situation where competitor was making all his money on heavy pax trafic. This was his strength but also his vulnerability. So I used my advantage, the big income from my industrial base to compete on pax to flip the situation, and it worked.
This tactic looks fair to me in those specific situations where it gets too difficult to beat a player that is moving big pax after a certain stage. Some players like Chuck or ShagNbud use a lot this style: to pax big cities and win by cargo points. This tactic was developed as a reaction to this style, because I didn't see what to do else than wait and loose. So for me it is fair if well used, which was not the case in the second game.

# Second game: we were in the first part of the game, at maybe 150 cp. I had setup a litlle industrial base and was looking for new businesses on the map. Then I saw a player that had made a long road between two cities. He was runing number of buses and mail trucks, and was starting to be dangerous, as he had now a good income and a lot of cargo points. Precision: we started both at the begining of the game, it was not a new coming player.
I decided to use the road he made and to compete with pax and mail in "his" cities. Little by little I came to a good number of buses. At this stage his business was affected. Then he got real mad at me. He started a war on me with exploits: he managed to completly block my bus network by blocking depots and deleting or rail some peaces of road to stop me by all ways. He was good in this, I got completly stuck and as I did not want to use these exploits myself I had to reset my company.
I understand that here this tactic was not very well used. In that one it was a pure vampire strategy, not a necessary tactical emergency reaction. In this game Micheal and Shag were runing other company and had a lot of fun watching me getting destroyed by a mad cheater. The situation was very funy for them. I remember I tried this tactic another time in the next game on Shag. He was growing big pax, good lines and when I started to come in the cities he developed other lines with hovecrafts and won. I started it late and it did not work that time for this reason, and also that the player was smart enough to react quick. But I remember Shag was pissed off by this, and not laughing at all like in the last game. So maybe the apreciation of this tactic depends from where you see it?

[quote]You can "destroy" anothers starting line with such tactics when you are in the game for quite a time and can afford it[/quote]

Right: to be efficient this tactic needs to get a good income from industry before all. It should not be used to ruin starter players, but only to stop strong pax players on their highway to victory.

[quote]So I see it from a my-company-focused view, not from the how-can-I damage-other-companies-most view[/quote]

Me too. I don't want to damage other companies, just to compete on pax ressources. This looks quite regular to me. I don't make artificial stations or dumy vehicules or any kind of these cheats. I make big money and cargo with the buses.

[quote]People will "hate" your style, but they could adapt to you and get aggressive too the next games[/quote]

These adaptations could be fun, changing a litttle the game from usual, using different tactics an improvisation. But this must not lead to bad mood, and that's why I posted this thread; to make things clear and keep the fun. Players are good and people are cool on this server, and I want to keep it like this while exploring new tactical schemes.

[quote]You can't win by doing it. You will only slow the other persons victory or allow a third player to win (just like what happened when you had you fight). Spending you time vampiring to stop someone else is not going to help you meet the "goal" fastest. [/quote]

You can win believe me. These conditions must met: strong income and competitor with only passenger lines, middle of the game. The thing that leads to victory is cargo points: if you put in service a lot of buses and if the cities give a lot of passengers the points are growing very fast while the oponent's stop getting higher, leading you straight to the goal in a short time.

And, as mentioned above, to start a war there is no special meaning. Transporting passengers in the game, you deprived me of 80% of income, because transportation of goods gave a little income.

What I had a choice? In that game I still would not have won. A lot of money has been spent on stealing resources from your industrial center that would deprive you of finance on stealing my passengers.
Typically, such action against me, I do not forgive, and in the following games do not even try to win and immediately begin a war against the player.

Especially, we should distinguish theft. It's one thing when it only decreases profits in one of the sources (when a player has more than one) for the sake of strategic benefits, and another thing when a player deprived of all income. What is the meaning of the play without money?

In that game, I was not from the beginning (started 1-2 a year), and leading positions not occupied, and was very surprised this tactic against me.

i pretty much read from the same book as jstaxton.....

calimero..i was never pissed off at you

your strategy does have an impact and yes to beat you i needed to have a counter to your tactic....

it is completely in the rules and in the game and therefore "fair"

maybe some people feel its "not gentleman like"

i dont really care im here to get high and make some trains n shit

and yeh im sorry but me and chuck could only laugh at your guys little war it was pretty funny but of course,u guys wouldnt have felt the same

Sorry for that game zel25b, you were a victim of some tactical experiments I made. I saw your road and jumped on the oportunity.

Now I know this tactic should be used with care. On the other hand it is very efficient against pax trafic, so be warned if you count on an easy victory just by moving big pax and mail ;)

Thanx for your responses guys, and keep on just like that: this server is cool and its a pleasure to play with you all.

aint we just one bid dysfunctional family :lol: :mrgreen:

Another story with this tactic. Begining of the game, Chuck has just built a train line between two interesting cities: 2200/1200. I started a company and looked around on the map. These cities were the most interesting place. So I decided to start with bus lines in these cities, to compete from the start with Chuck's train and see who will get the advantage. I did not speak to Chuck before doing it, maybe I should have.
Chuck saw it and imediatly reseted his company and left. I had just finished the road and did not even buy any bus. So I reseted too, not wanting to play a boring game without oponent in these cities.

Wasn't that true competition? Where is it unfair?

Sorry about that Chuck: it was not against you, I justed wanted to play with some competition and see who from the trains or the buses would do the best. Next time I will warn before poping in.

After some other little tests and discussions with the players I came to the conclusion that this tactic is not apropriate. It is very efficient but it upsets the players and this lead to war and bad mood. So it should not be used even in emergency cases: better to let the player win than to make him angry.

You shouldn't consider the mod of someone that leave to not lose rating.